{"id":2875,"date":"2021-11-14T21:03:27","date_gmt":"2021-11-14T20:03:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/?p=2875"},"modified":"2021-11-15T22:50:08","modified_gmt":"2021-11-15T21:50:08","slug":"p-value-hypothese-difference-significative","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/2021\/11\/14\/p-value-hypothese-difference-significative\/","title":{"rendered":"p-value : erreur fr\u00e9quente d\u2019interpr\u00e9tation."},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Conclure, de l\u2019absence de diff\u00e9rence significative d\u2019un test statistique, \u00e0 l&rsquo;\u00e9quivalence des \u00e9l\u00e9ments compar\u00e9s, est une erreur trop fr\u00e9quente. Elle est \u00e0 rapprocher du probl\u00e8me de<a href=\"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/2019\/05\/14\/inversion-de-lhypothese-nulle\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"> l\u2019inversion de la charge de la preuve.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lors d\u2019un congr\u00e8s v\u00e9t\u00e9rinaire national, l\u2019un de nous a assist\u00e9 \u00e0 la pr\u00e9sentation d\u2019un essai par un laboratoire. Celui-ci veut proposer un nouveau protocole de synchronisation de chaleurs des vaches. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Il a mont\u00e9 une exp\u00e9rience o\u00f9 il traite N animaux avec un premier protocole et N animaux appari\u00e9s avec un second. A partir des r\u00e9sultats de diagnostic de gestation, il fait un<a href=\"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/2019\/04\/28\/cest-quoi-un-petit-p\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"> test statistique, d\u2019hypoth\u00e8se<\/a>, o\u00f9 l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se nulle est \u00ab Il n\u2019y a pas de diff\u00e9rence entre&nbsp; les deux protocoles \u00bb et l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se alternative est \u00ab Il y a une diff\u00e9rence entre les deux protocoles \u00bb. Le r\u00e9sultat de l\u2019exp\u00e9rience montre une p-value* sup\u00e9rieure \u00e0 5%. D&rsquo;un point de vue statistique La diff\u00e9rence observ\u00e9e entre le premier et le second protocole n&rsquo;est donc pas une diff\u00e9rence significative. Notre laboratoire en conclut donc qu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;y a pas de diff\u00e9rence entre ces protocoles de synchronisation. Alors que tout ce qui pr\u00e9c\u00e8de est correct, cette derni\u00e8re \u00e9tape du raisonnement est fausse !<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Un test d\u2019hypoth\u00e8se classique (X2, analyse de variance, Pearson, Student \u2026) fonctionne grosso modo de la fa\u00e7on suivante : dans la population \u00e9tudi\u00e9e, je veux v\u00e9rifier que truc existe (\u00e7a c\u2019est l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se appel\u00e9e alternative H1). Je postule que truc n\u2019existe pas (c\u2019est mon hypoth\u00e8se nulle appel\u00e9e H0).&nbsp;Et oui, on prouve que quelque chose existe en rejetant la possibilit\u00e9 qu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;existe pas. Donc partant du postulat qu\u2019on a H0 et en appliquant le test statistique sur les mesures dans notre population \u00e9tudi\u00e9e, ce test calcule la probabilit\u00e9 qu\u2019il soit possible d\u2019observer les r\u00e9sultats obtenus dans l\u2019essai si H0 est vraie : <a href=\"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/2019\/04\/28\/cest-quoi-un-petit-p\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">le fameux petit p<\/a>. Si cette probabilit\u00e9 est inf\u00e9rieure \u00e0 5% (valeur choisie \u00e0 priori qui peut \u00eatre diff\u00e9rente) alors on rejette l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se nulle. On admet alors l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se alternative H1 : truc existe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Comment interpr\u00e9ter alors si la p-value est sup\u00e9rieure \u00e0 5% ? Ben on n\u2019interpr\u00e8te pas et surtout on ne dit pas qu\u2019H0 est vraie ! Forc\u00e9ment puisqu\u2019on a fait le test en pr\u00e9sumant qu\u2019elle \u00e9tait vraie ! C\u2019est une tautologie, un raisonnement circulaire. Le cheval blanc est blanc parce que c\u2019est\u2026 un cheval blanc&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Reprenons l\u2019exemple de notre laboratoire, la conclusion ne pouvait \u00eatre, au mieux, que : \u00ab nous avons \u00e9chou\u00e9 \u00e0 montrer une diff\u00e9rence entre les deux protocoles \u00bb. Peut-\u00eatre qu\u2019effectivement, il n\u2019y a pas de diff\u00e9rence. Cependant il est possible aussi que l\u2019essai manque de puissance et qu\u2019il \u00e9choue \u00e0 montrer une diff\u00e9rence qui pourtant existe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Comment aurait-il pu s\u2019en sortir ? Intervertir les hypoth\u00e8ses, c&rsquo;est-\u00e0-dire partir sur l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se nulle \u00ab il y a une diff\u00e9rence \u00bb et une hypoth\u00e8se alternative \u00ab il n\u2019y a pas de diff\u00e9rence \u00bb,&nbsp; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.zeterinaires.fr\/nofakemed\/2019\/05\/14\/inversion-de-lhypothese-nulle\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">\u00e7a ne marche pas<\/a> ( c\u2019est m\u00eame math\u00e9matiquement impossible). Il reste donc deux options. Soit multiplier les \u00e9tudes et, en \u00e9chouant \u00e0 montrer une diff\u00e9rence, cela augmente, de fait, la cr\u00e9dence en cette hypoth\u00e8se. Soit plus simplement en r\u00e9alisant non pas un test \u00ab classique \u00bb mais <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=a5DNvmUktcs\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">un test de non inf\u00e9riorit\u00e9<\/a> ou d\u2019\u00e9quivalence mais ce genre d\u2019essai clinique co\u00fbte plus cher et demande une grande rigueur.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Voil\u00e0 voil\u00e0. Nous vous parlerons peut-\u00eatre un jour des inf\u00e9rences abusives fr\u00e9quentes dans les essais cliniques v\u00e9t\u00e9rinaires..&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>*&nbsp; calcul\u00e9e \u00e0 l\u2019aide d\u2019une analyse de variance<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Conclure, de l\u2019absence de diff\u00e9rence significative d\u2019un test statistique, \u00e0 l&rsquo;\u00e9quivalence des \u00e9l\u00e9ments compar\u00e9s, est une erreur trop fr\u00e9quente. Elle est \u00e0 rapprocher du probl\u00e8me de l\u2019inversion de la charge de la preuve. Lors d\u2019un congr\u00e8s v\u00e9t\u00e9rinaire national, l\u2019un de nous a assist\u00e9 \u00e0 la pr\u00e9sentation d\u2019un essai par un laboratoire. Celui-ci veut proposer un&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":2881,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"iawp_total_views":115,"footnotes":""},"categories":[97],"tags":[42,153,34,26,25],"class_list":["post-2875","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pedagogie","tag-hypothese","tag-nulle","tag-p-value","tag-statistique","tag-test"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>p-value : erreur fr\u00e9quente d\u2019interpr\u00e9tation. - Z\u00e9t\u00e9rinaires<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"D\u00e9duire de l&#039;absence de diff\u00e9rence significative , l&#039;\u00e9quivalence des \u00e9l\u00e9ments compar\u00e9s une erreur fr\u00e9quente\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, 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